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odonata 15 ( +1 | -1 )
Fastest draw ever? board #3296803
lol, can anyone find a faster draw than this?
chuckventimiglia 17 ( +1 | -1 )
That is not lol!!! They are number 1 and number 2 in the same mini
tournament. I guess a Draw profits both players.

I wonder what Mike would make of this. LOL !!
cairo 45 ( +1 | -1 )
I'm wholehearted behind what chuckventimiglia writes and I think the rules is clear here at GK eh?

Purposefully losing or tying tournament games, so that both of the players advance to the next round, will result in disqualification of both players involved from the tournament.

Best wishes
Cairo

misato 100 ( +1 | -1 )
only GK tournament rule As far as I can see, the rule quoted by cairo only applies to GK tournaments - not to mini tournaments.

By the way, there is a current GK tournament where a player resigned in a won position to help his opponent advancing to the next round. As far as I know, both have been disqualified.

I also feel that this is unsportsmanlike in a mini tournament as well - but where is the benefit for BOTH players? Only one of them can win the tourney or they share the tournament points (if they win their other games). If one of them draws versus another opponent he/she might miss the chance out of this "game". Or both feel that they have better chances to win in the other game (with opposite colours). I don't see a solid reason for any consequence in this case.

And if they really want to draw, there are a lot of other ways which aren't that evident (any theory line ending with eternal check in move 15, I am sure there is something like that in King's Gambit).
dominickmazzotta 9 ( +1 | -1 )
this reminds me of a fischer quote from years ago about the russians doing the same thing...
chuckventimiglia 16 ( +1 | -1 )
The intent of the rule is for... any tournament or match here at GK. The
rule was implemented before the minis started
and everyone in that mini tournament is affected
by this sort of play.
soikins 64 ( +1 | -1 )
draw In this particular game I guess svetlana offered a draw. I think she offered draws in all of her games after a big timeout. I don't know the reasons for this, but I have seen people do that. Probably because they are too busy to play at the moment but can't postpone. They have a choice - either to lose the game by timeout or to make a draw offer. I think this is the case here and no cheating. Svetlana offered a draw to me too and neither of us would gain anything from it.
blackbaron 25 ( +1 | -1 )
I must admit that I often offer draws early in tournament games. But usually only when it is my last game so that I can complete the tournament quickly and move on to a new one , thus keeping my tournamnet totals ticking over.
drdesoto 116 ( +1 | -1 )
Excuse me ... but don't we, from a certain playing level on, somehow know how to gain a draw if we need or want a draw, especially if both players are satisfied with a draw?? What's the difference in CC (it`s completely different OTB) to gain the draw after 2 or 11 moves - I just know position after 10. moves which are a draw whether I would draw early or play another 20 moves (and if you do so, soon you are accused "stalling" games)

Also we all know that especially in tournaments you can't fight out every match to the very end, sometimes you need a short draw to concentrate on winnable positions. Isn't this a legitime tournament tactic? And isn't it legitim to gain a drawas early as possible, if I could win the tournament with this half point. "Who is without any sin may cast the stone."

So nobody would have reacted if both players would have agreed draw after 20. moves, which to me means the rule is just there to keep up appearances (be clever enough no to catch so.'s eye, meaning make enough moves). I don't think this is a useful rule at all.

Best,
drdesoto
tertsius 34 ( +1 | -1 )
Well I am in the tournament in question where this game took place and soikins, I disagree. I am playing both of these players in question and no draw offers from either, hmm why is that? I think the rules are clear, Mike has been notified I await his reply!
chuckventimiglia 96 ( +1 | -1 )
Soikens and others hello!! When 2 people enter a match it is
usually with the understanding that
they will play out the match to the
best of their ability.

Every now and then something happens and
one player or the other may not be able to
finish and a Draw may be offered and accepted.

In a mini tournament or any tournament where
there are more than just 2 players then the
same offer should be given to all the other players
to accept or not. There is now more than 2 people
involved.

If the Draw is legitimate it should be offered to
every player in the match and it may not be
accepted by all.

If a player really does not have the time to
continue play then they should resign. In
mini touraments or regular tournaments there
are more than just those two players.

tertsius is a participant in that mini and
he has every right to bring this to Mike's
attention. It just is not right!!
tertsius 6 ( +1 | -1 )
Cairo is correct Mike has taken these two players out of the mini for cheating.
drdesoto 65 ( +1 | -1 )
Strange ... but rule is rule.

BTW why is nobody blamed and taken out of tournaments for timing out?? This is obviously not considered unfair, though all other players are affected, too. I also consider resigning in the middle of a tournament because of personal reasons as unfair for the rest of the players (its the same as timing out). From the tournament point of view a withdraw would be the fairest: Nobody gains points against the player or all player get a win.

Finanl learning: No more draws before move 20 or better 30 in tournaments (I have violated this allready). Very strange, indeed.

Best,

drdesoto
tertsius 31 ( +1 | -1 )
Chuck said it best why not offer draws to all players involved? Conveneince I think, they thought their position in the tourny was above reproach that they couldn't be caught by the other players involved so settle for a nice easy draw? I stinks of bad sportsmanship at the least level and collusion and cheating at best!
soikins 39 ( +1 | -1 )
Fairness Oh, I see, now ramarao and svetlana have been banned from the tournament. Now this is definately fair, especially towards those who lost to them in the tournament, comparing to those who didn't play them and thus gained "free points".
silurasglanis 152 ( +1 | -1 )
Hmmmmmm A definate tightrope we walk here. I cannot see any real issue, so they both decided to give away half a point, so what, if this impacts other players then the other players should have ensured that their destiny was in their own hands by playing better and getting more points. The only real problem would have been an offer of a draw or acceptance of one, from a player in a won position as it was the only result that allowed the other player to also gain some reward/qualify. Assuming this latter case was not the situation then either one player gambled half a point which he may have needed later or they were infact already confirmed in their finishing positions whatever the other results, surely the players choice.

Is it therefore inappropriate to take holidays and come back jetlagged and blunder ? Not fair on those players you beat before going away ? Guilty.

If a quick draw in an equal position, to save time, or cope with other commitments, is acceptable to the two players involved then what the hell.

Personally I believe they were fully conversant with the theory of the opening and after white realised he had moved the wrong pawn in error with 1.) e4 and black blundered likewise with 1)....e5 then both dived into a drawning line and baled out before anymore blunders could be made.
thecatcool120 20 ( +1 | -1 )
That isn't funny, y'all are just newbies/beginner Not LOL.

That's what happens when you deal with rookies. Besides K Gambit is a garbage opening, Qh4 checks kill folks. Play the Q Gambit instead. Or the Danish... something other.
odonata 29 ( +1 | -1 )
. thecatcool120 the day you understand the importance of tempo and control of the center you'll know to appreciate the King's Gambit! For the rest I can tell you that GM like Fischer and Spassky often played this opening, it's no "garbage" my friend...
pixie_poodle 72 ( +1 | -1 )
Mike is correct. I have read all the arguments regarding this situation and feel that Mike has got it right.

By excluding both parties from the tournament he is demanding that each game on this website by approached with respect.

A draw may have been convenient for both parties, especially as it reduced the number of games they were playing. I would be disappointed if I were third in this tournament and the 2 top players agreed a draw so they could focus more time on beating me!

I think a preconceived draw, in this manner - not knowing specifics i.e. personal problems, is very disappointing.

Isn't chess about how you conduct yourself during the games as well as how good you are at it?

The Poodle.
abiyazchess 24 ( +1 | -1 )
Endgame Mystery Has nayone here been able to checkmate in an endgame : King + Bishop + Kingiht
vs. King ? or is there no possiblity . I heard there definetly is but it's difficult but I have not been able to see anyone prove it ? If any of you know , please answer.
odonata 48 ( +1 | -1 )
it is possible King+Bishop+Knight can checkmate King, all you have to do is to drive the King to right corner. Don't know games here on gk where that happened. Check it out on a chessboard for yourself I'd say, I'm sure you'll find it!
King+Knight+Knight vs King is a draw on the other hand (unless the opposition helps). Some very high ranked players here on gk don't know this last thing, a fact that arouses some suspicion from my part...
misato 87 ( +1 | -1 )
the right corner is the one with the bishop's colour.
Indeed, it is hard and happens very rarely. You can manage to push the other King to the border of the board. Then, of course, your opponent tries to escape into the "wrong" corner - with success. To get him to the correct corner is hard work and must be planned rather detailed.
Your King is very important for all manoeuvres, and normally you should place your knight on the bishop's colour to cover the squares of the other colour.
The end position looks like
White: Kg3, Bg2, Nd2
Black: Kh1
(Or change the knight to f3 and the black King to g1.)

In my club there is a guy who can do that within a minute on his chess clock. He always bets for a beer - and wins (several times in sequence!). I hope I will never get into that situation in a real OTB game, no matter which beverage, no matter which time left ...
misato 12 ( +1 | -1 )
hmm I just noticed:
abiyazchess, are you sure you put your question into the correct thread? I can't see the link to the preceeding posts.
abiyazchess 21 ( +1 | -1 )
Oops . So I put my question into another question , the wrong thread . But I'm afriad I can't do anything about it . The question will have to be answered inside this question and be normally hidden. Thanks anyway , misato .
beathoven 22 ( +1 | -1 )
draws like this happen sometimes, but this is the fastest resigning in a GM game.

-> www.xs4all.nl
maca 274 ( +1 | -1 )
Now this is one of those reasons... ...why I don't participate tournaments here in GK any more. This is not the biggest one, but the rule here in GK that quick draws are forbidden is not only against FIDE rules, but also ineffective.

According the rules used in tournaments here in Finland, which are mostly based on FIDE rules, say that a draw by agreement can be made as early after 3 moves of playing. It is forbidden to decide with your opponent that you are going to draw the game BEFORE the game, but otherwise a draw can be proposed and accepted any time. And no-on can judge you of making a such of decision. Only way to disqualificate both players is to prove that a clear agreement of drawing was made before and not during the game.

The rule used here is also ineffective. It is a line drawn in water, and going around it is very easy. There are several openings that offer quick draws, and if the other players also wants a draw, then he can, in corresponde chess, easily find the "correct" moves to draw. Is that against the rules? Clearly no, but someone could say so, claiming that it was a kind of "fast draw", played straight from the book. And there are more ways to go around the rule here in GK, but I won't write them here in order to prevent players using them.

And not only perfectly legal according to the FIDE, the fast draws might sometimes be completly ethically acceptable. Imagine you would be playing a tournament, and being told that your next game would be against your wife/father/son/daughter. In these situations, which are luckily rare, quick draws are completly acceptable here in Finland, at least amongst players, even at the top level. Chess referees, of course, always remember to talk about it before the tournaments, but there is no rell way for them to do anything about it.

After all of these problems, I can only say, that drawing after only few moves played is ridicilous, not fair against other players and often unethical, but still, not against the FIDE rules, as long as the decicion is made during the game. In my apinion, players should always try to play for a win, even if they chose a drawish opening. But chess is a game of great tactics and strategy, and while playing in a tournament, the tournament situation comes part of that strategy. If there were a rule that would- even basicly, how would you control it, and how would you make all of those GMs accept it ? -ban players for making quick draws, then it would no longer be competative chess. It the sorry truth.

Just my humble thoughts,
MaCa

sualksnh 71 ( +1 | -1 )
I also don't like rule for early draws But if it's there it should be applied to all players.

Take for instance this draw between cairo and cyrano after only 8 moves.

-> gameknot.com

cairo leads the tournament and cyrano playing slowly as usual has 5 1/2 out of 6 and it is to be expected that he will finally hold one of the first two places.

Ethically I don't see any difference to the game between ramarao and svetlana. I hope somebody will enlighten me though.

Disclaimer:
The game cairo vs. cyrano is an example that sprung to my eye recently when I preprared for my games against either of them. I have no personal aversions toward these very decent players.
odonata 13 ( +1 | -1 )
You have a good point.. But mail the webmaster if you are in that tournament, rules are there for all of us, also for the top 10 players.
Mike will judge things in a fair way.
cairo 135 ( +1 | -1 )
Comments to sualksnh and odonato.

- Rules at GK counts for every player here, regardless of strenght and ratings.
- I was "sick and tired" of playing this game, it had gone on for 31/2 months and we had reach move 9. So if anyone wants a quick draw with me, just stall/postpone your game(s) endlessly and I will offer you a draw and put you on my "No PLay List" after.
- The reason I'm leading the current minitournament is, that I have finished more games, except from gothicgirl, than anyone else.
- My early drawoffer, (to early I admit, I should have resigned the game instead of) didn't have a direct influence of the tournament, like the game mention above btw. ramarao vs svetlana had.
- My average moves per game is 35 moves, so although I have relatively high percentice of draws of all my finished games, they are normally much longer than the mentioned game.

Best wishes
Cairo