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| From | Message | Posted by houseofcook
debiantoday.com
10/21/2008
13:54:37
Play online chess |  Subject: Burn Variation French
Message:
Hi there,
I've played the Burn variation in the French on a number of occasions.
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 dxe4. Now white usually plays Nxe4, however I played a game where my opponent played 5.Bxf6.
Now this move isn't played very much, and after the game I tried to look it up in some chess books on the French, however all the books (including Watson) don't mention and assume white will play Nxe4.
I thought that perhaps Bxf6 must be a bad move if it is not mentioned in any book, however Fritz shows play to be equal.
Has anyone played this variation, and is there a good reason its not mentioned in any some of the chess books on the French .
Perhaps you know of some chess books that do analyse this variation.
I would be interested in your views.
| Posted by blake78613
debiantoday.com
10/21/2008
14:31:57
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Message:
Looks like 5...gxf6 would transpose into known lines, so only 5...Qxf6 would have any independent significance. 6 Nxe4 Qg6 might be a little better for Black than normal Burn variations. In general, White can play second best moves and still be equal.
| Posted by ionadowman
debiantoday.com
10/21/2008
22:57:11
Play online chess | Interesting...
Message:
I klooked the thing up in my old MCO11 and found only 5.NxP! (5.Nxe4!). Nothing at all on other possibilities. Clearly the writer considered this move too good to pass up. As it happens, I have also an MCO10. This did have an alternative line:
5.Bxf6 gxf6
(Nothing on the Q recapture, tho' it does lose time after 6.Nxe4 I guess)
6.Nxe4 f5
7.Nc3 Bg7
8.Nf3 0-0
9.Qd2 c5
10.dxc5 Qa5
11. Nb5 Qxd2+
12.Nxd2 Na6
13.c3 Nxc5
14.Nb3 Nxb3
15.axb3 a6
16.Nd6 Rd8
17.Nxc8 Raxc8 (=)
Pahl - Stahlberg, 1930.
Not the excitingest line I've ever seen, but it ceratinly seems playable.
It has to be said, though, that MCO11 thought the lines after 5.Nxe4 were good for White, leading to an edge. How far the theory has come to a different view in the last 30 years, I leave others to discuss. But I hope this provides a starting point.
Just by the way, it's not a bad idea to explore these obscure lines, just to see what possibilities might turn up. You just never know...
Cheers,
Ion
———
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Posted by blake78613
debiantoday.com
10/22/2008
07:21:10
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Note that a known variation of Burn's variation runs 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 4 Bg5 dxe4 5 Nxe4 Be7 6 Bxf6 gxf6. Black could enter that variation by playing 6...Be7 in the subject variation. Since White is going to play Nxe4 anyway, it is more forcing to play right away. Reversing the move order gives Black the choice of staying in known lines or trying something different.
———
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Posted by brulla
debiantoday.com
10/22/2008
20:05:45
Play online chess | chessbase...
Message:
...gives 132 games with 5...Qxf6. Would anyone fancy an evaluation? There seems to be a decent amount of black wins, but also many white wins.
———
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Posted by schnarre
debiantoday.com
10/28/2008
01:39:46
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Message:
I've not usually had too many problems with the Burn--indeed Bxf6 is what I normally recommend.
I've usually seen:
1. e4 e6
2. d4 d5
3. Nc3 Nf6
4. Bg5 dxe4
5. Bxf6 Qxf6
6. Nxe4 Qg6
7. Bd3 Qxg2
8. Qf3 Qxf3
9. Nxf3
...after 10. 0-0-0 White has ample compensation for the material. The Burn's strength, assuming anyone plays to it, is the connected Knights at d7 & f6 with backup from the Bishop put on e7; with the Knight pair broken, the Burn loses a lot of its potential strength (getting an attack going is hard enough with that variation anyway).
I've almost never seen 5...gxf6 though. I'd figure:
5...gxf6
6. Nxe4 f5
7. Nc3 Bb4
8. Nf3 c5
9. Ne5 Nd7/Nc6
10. Bb5 Bxc3+
11. bxc3 a6
12. Bxd7/c6+ Bxd7/bxc6
13. Qh5 & after 14. 0-0-0 I'd probably still prefer White, though 5...gxf6 is the stronger of Black's two lines.
———
The f-pawn, part 2: is f5 the answer here? — Does White have a better option than moving the f-pawn? Continuing our look at the chess equivalent of route one football – the f-pawn advance... RB Well, let's see what happens when we push – 1 f5. The answer comes back faster than Manchester United on the break, not much. Black is under no compulsion to take the pawn and can instead centralise with 1…Nd4 or even 1…Qd4, or start getting the queen's rook into play with 1…Rac8, and 1…Nb4, hitting the d-pawn, would be irritating. All right, let's try to be logical. What's wrong here is that even if we could swap off pawns on the f-file, the f1-rook would remain blocked by the bishop. Let's ...
Posted by houseofcook
debiantoday.com
10/29/2008
07:55:03
Play online chess | Burn Variation
Message:
Regarding the last entry from Schnarre why is't this ever analysed ?
Anyone know ?
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Posted by blake78613
debiantoday.com
10/29/2008
09:24:25
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Message:
It is analyzed but with a different move order. For instance, MCO 15 gives 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Bg5 dxe4 5 Nxe4 Be7 6 Bxf6 gxf6 (which is the same position) MCO 15 continues 7 Nf3 b6 and a footnote says "7... f5 is active but loosens squares". Opening books may not give you the exact position, but they generally give you enough guidelines so that you are not left trying to navigate without a compass.
| Posted by blake78613
debiantoday.com
10/29/2008
10:01:43
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Message:
This is what Neil McDonald and Andrew Harley say about the Rubinstein Center after ...gxf6 in their book "Mastering the French"
White's knights can often make good use of the 'semi-outposts' e5 and e4 as the pawn moves that dislodge them (...f6 or ...f5) would leave the e6-pawn uncomfortably backward. This part of the reason behind the capture ...gxf6 after a Bxf6 capture -- White's two knights have fewer central squares. Black also gains the g-file for his rooks, which can be very useful when White has castled kingside. A rook on g8 and bishop on b7 or c6 can combine against g2. Black often combines ...gxf6 with ...O-O-O for seemingly obvious reasons, but the capture can be surprising effective after ...O-O as well. The king on h8 defends the h-7 pawn and is fairly secure after ...f6-f5, though Black must watch out for piece sacrificies on f5.
| Posted by houseofcook
debiantoday.com
10/29/2008
10:05:25
Play online chess | Burn Variation
Message:
Thanks blake for that observation, but this would not cover Qxf6 as rhe Bishop would be on e7. I played this on Fritz and it gave play as equal.
| Posted by houseofcook
debiantoday.com
10/29/2008
10:41:18
Play online chess | Burn variation
Message:
When I wrote my last query I hadn't read Blake's last entry which explains what I was asking.
Thanks Blake.
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