♡ 36 ( +1 | -1 ) Can anyone explain?today, one of my team members finished a game. it says, that black won. but according to the FIDE rules, this result is not possible, because black has only a king left. on the other side that means, black is unable to get a mate.
♡ 25 ( +1 | -1 ) chuckventimigliaits not that. it says that black has won, and black has only one king left. he cannot mate, no chance! I suppose, white has resigned accidentally. but then, the result nevertheless has to be a draw, and not a win for black. because black is unable to mate white.
♡ 17 ( +1 | -1 ) RESIGNATION SUPERCEDES OTHER RULESBy FIDE rules, you lose the game if you resign. Period. End of story. The board says White resigned, so it does not matter whether Black had mating material or not.
♡ 101 ( +1 | -1 ) interesting.I thought it might be as fmgaijin stated, but good to be sure now, hearing it from him. I take it then, that WT could have just timed out if he wanted a draw, and his opponent would not just agree to one (as a hypothetical- Im not even going to check if its mate in 3 or 5) . What i wonder then , could WT have claimed to GK to gain a draw due to "insufficient losing chances"? Maybe that is just sudden death. But it certainly seems like he should be able to get one somehow, if he had wanted it. ...and had not resigned. (I agree with the rule, Resigned is Resigned and should end the game just like mate does). Suppose for eg he knew he had to leave in a week and never return ... should he just let it time out? Perhaps he had to go, but considered it poor to timeout. Perhaps if someone never had, they would not want to . So the Q, whats the best recourse if you knew you had to go and should not lose, but opponent would not grant a draw ... perhaps knew you had to go or whatever. What to do>?
♡ 38 ( +1 | -1 ) PS// onecould set up as many conditional moves as possible of course, depending how forcing a position. And hope the game wins itself in abscentia ! (Consider, one could even be deceased and still win a Chess game! Of course, I dont think a live opponent Should be prerequisite to winning That particular game , but I suppose it was just another case of Playing to Mate :)
♡ 12 ( +1 | -1 ) Anyone thought of asking Jon?Why not just ask white why he/she (jsabol) chose to resign?
♡ 12 ( +1 | -1 ) Anyone thought of asking Jon?Why not just ask white why he/she (jsabol) chose to resign?
♡ 70 ( +1 | -1 ) UnrelatedYa know... I've been thinking whenever I see a double post that the user must be an idiot. I mean... Come on! How could you post the exact same thing twice.
Yours truly... thank you... Now I know how: You post your reply. You make a few clicks on the site. Then, you decide to go back a few pages... Clicking the Back button on the browser. Guess what happens? You get the "You must click retry to refresh this page" prompt (or something similar). Without thinking about the why of that prompt, you promptly click Retry. BINGO! You've just successfully posted again... The exact same message.
I promise I won't try that same trick on this post. :)
♡ 56 ( +1 | -1 ) i just flicked through this game out of curiosity... and 53... Kc4?? is baffling to say the least... that was black's game... then it was white's... then he resigned for no apparant reason. i can only imagine he was bored of the game, it had been going for 7 months...
ironically, if white was bored of it, he could've won it with conditional moves in 4, without ever needing to visit the board again if he so wished... black is forced every time... 82. ...Ke8 83. h8=Q+ Kd7 84. Qc8+ Kd6 85. Nf5+ Ke5 86. Qe6#
if i were you gothicgirl, i'd ask for an explanation from your team member!
♡ 17 ( +1 | -1 ) AndDoesn't resigning like this get into the contriversy of rating manipulation, leading to your teammate being banned from the site for doing such
♡ 73 ( +1 | -1 ) tuggerthats a point, but in this case its unimportant. I dont asked, why white resigned or what is possible in this position. I only mean this final position, I have posted, according to the result! based on the FIDE rules, this result is irregular. normally its won for the opponent, when one of both resign the game. but there is an exeption, that is given here. the winning side has to be able to win the game by:
- having the material to force a mate
- having pawns, that can be promoted into material, that can force a mate.
both are not given here. it says that black has won the game, although he has nothing else but the king on the chessboard! myself I think, that it has not been implemented so far.
♡ 91 ( +1 | -1 ) NO EXCEPTIONS IN FIDE RULEBOOKI'm sorry, gothicgirl, but the exception you cite applies ONLY to claims of a win by time forfeit, NOT a resignation. That's why if a player "loses" on time by accepting the loss when the opponent makes a claim when the opponent does not actually have mating material, the player still loses because the player is considered to have resigned. This is similar to a game by beginners where one player stalemates the other, cries "Checkmate!" and they sign the scoresheet--it was "really" a draw, but in accepting the checkmate claim, the player is considered to have resigned. (Of course, the time forfeit situation only arises in an OTB game; here it is automatic.)
In the case at hand, as I said before, WHITE RESIGNED. PERIOD. END OF STORY. No matter how bizarre, strange, or pointless the resignation was, it stands because a resignation takes precedence over everything else, INCLUDING the requirement for mating material.
♡ 91 ( +1 | -1 ) Now, "Why?"In an OTB tournament, I once observed a player resign when the opponent did not have mating material. However, the player later told me why he resigned: Guilt! You see, their game was in the corner of a large tournament room and at one point in the game, the player had made a blunder that would have lost the game, but the opponent was away from the board, no TD was present, etc.--in short the perfect crime! So he had taken back the move, but as the game progressed and he gained a winning position in the ending, he felt more and more guilty for the takeback, and finally his conscience overwhelmed him.
NO, I'm not suggesting that White in this case cheated and then felt guilty!! I'm just pointing out that people do strange things for unfathomable reasons--watch Kurosawa's film "Rashomon" sometime if you wonder what I'm talking about.
We may never know the TRUE reason that White resigned *grin*!
♡ 14 ( +1 | -1 ) fmgaijinthe reason for white resigns is not the point to discuss here! its nothing else but the final position I have posted in order to the result.
♡ 29 ( +1 | -1 ) gothicgirl: PLEASE read my PREVIOUS post!!!There IS no other point to this thread because WHITE RESIGNED and when you RESIGN, MATING MATERIAL DOES NOT MATTER!!
Therefore, all we have left is to speculate about why White resigned. Otherwise, let the thread end because GK's computer followed the FIDE rules perfectly.
♡ 16 ( +1 | -1 ) final positionHas nothing to do with what happened. White resigned, black won for your team. That's the rule. Not sure what else you need to know.
♡ 42 ( +1 | -1 ) Oh, Come on... Juve_leoRating manipulation??? Some people take this site way too serious! It was ONE game and an accidental resignation at that. Having had to deal with accusations of rating manipulation personally, I don't take this lightly. Jon isn't the only one who has ever accidently resigned (...and yes, it was an accident... I asked him!). He has a perfectly good explanation of how this happened, but I'll let him explain if he so chooses. Reread the point gothicgirl was trying to make and leave it at that!
♡ 23 ( +1 | -1 ) Ok, I'll biteHow does one accidentally resign? I haven't resigned here yet (only played 10 games), but I'd imagine you have to click 'resign' and then confirm that that's what you wanted to do. How can you accidentally click resign twice in a row?
♡ 72 ( +1 | -1 ) fmgaijinthe Material does matter, but you have to look at the FIDE hompage, because the FIDE rules you find under "more options" is are not complete and they are not the most actual ones! under -> www.fide.com you find a much better version!
In my opinion, it is based on the following article of the FIDE rules:
9.6 The game is drawn when a position is reached from which a checkmate cannot occur by any possible series of legal moves, even with the most unskilled play. This immediately ends the game, provided that the move producing this position was legal.
♡ 139 ( +1 | -1 ) Still Wrong, gothicgirl!!Start with Rule 5.1.b:
"The game is won by the player whose opponent declares he resigns. This immediately ends the game."
Then read Rule 5.2.b:
"The game is drawn when a position has arisen in which neither player can checkmate the opponent`s king with any series of legal moves. The game is said to end in a `dead position`. This immediately ends the game, provided that the move producing the position was legal."
This "underlying" rule is the basis for COMPETITION RULE 9.6, which is intended to cover positions where NEITHER player can mate, allowing the arbiter to end a game where, example, the players continue to play with K v. K (as an arbiter, I've actually had to end a game in this way!!). An arbiter would NOT stop the game in question because White CAN force mate.
Since "mate by insufficient mating material" requires a claim, what would suffice to end the game in an OTB tournament would be that White "claims" a draw because Black does not have mating material. However, a "normal" person playing White would only do that if the flag fell so that the claim would prevent a loss.
Therefore, the game continues. And, if White accidentally resigns, White IMMEDIATELY LOSES per Rule 5.1.b.
PLEASE let this answer your question and let this thread fade into oblivion . . .
♡ 7 ( +1 | -1 ) That should read "DRAW by insufficent . . .. . . mating material," not "mate by insufficient mating material." Sorry!!
♡ 11 ( +1 | -1 ) fmgaijinI still disagree, but at this point we should really let stand our different opinions side by side!
♡ 19 ( +1 | -1 ) Neither side attempted to claim a draw, whether to avoid a loss on time or for any other reason. White resigned. So White loses. Seems clear enough to me.
♡ 46 ( +1 | -1 ) Loss for white9.6 The game is drawn when a position is reached from which a checkmate cannot occur by any possible series of legal moves, even with the most unskilled play. This immediately ends the game, provided that the move producing this position was legal.
This rule is not applicable here, as white can mate in a few moves. Therefore, if either player resigns, it should count as a loss for that player.